Paige I’ve about decided that we may be talking to ourselves, so I’m going to address this to you and not the rest of the cyber world. If others are in fact seeing this then I would be very honored if you would read this post and comment if you want… Pretend you’re Paige!
I was just wondering mostly what your views on absolute truth are, in light of your views on relativism. I know you said some things about it, but I was wondering if you would care to expand. You said God’s love is the truth, and I agree whole-heartedly. I want to know how you find yourself putting this into practice. If God’s love is truth and we have that then we should be doing something about it, no? So what now? I’m not accusing you of anything, by the way, just simply wondering the ways that you do this. We should be love to everyone else around us just like God is love to us. I get frustrated sometimes because it seems like a lot of people just say this and then don’t live it out! Even though none of us are perfect, the fact still remains that a lot of us do this on a regular basis. We don't notice people. We aren't God's love to them. Does that bother you? Are we to love only those we want to love? Are we just to love on their own terms? How can that be right? Is it our fault if we don't see people in need? It’s certainly not what Jesus did on a day to day basis. His love was radical. Just thinking of the social implications of what Jesus did so many times astounds me. Eating with sinners and touching leprous people were a way of life for him. And that wasn’t because that’s where he belonged! Humility! I think the truth of God’s love is seen most when we notice and love people, not just so we reach our quota of love for the day, but because we are becoming like God. Just some things I’ve been thinking about. I’d like to hear what more you have to say on the matter. : )
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If you believe in God, then of course you believe that His love is "unconditional". It means that it isn't just for those that know the heart of God but I believe that He reserves this "right" and reward to those that sometimes don't know Him. If we don't reach some people that have never heard before God decides to send his Son again what will happen??? They obviously don't know the truth and can't be held accountable...but at the same time the term "unconditional", i believe, refers to the idea that even though we accept Him, we are going to fall short, but as long as we continue to seek the "heart of God" He understands...If you believe in God and the Creation, it is hard for me to think that you can't believe in the Bible and the absolute right and wrongs that God has set...I know that people do this and it's called "deism" but it's hard for me to understand...The love and compassion that Jesus Christ felt for us and that God allowed him to go through is proof enough for me, that if i believe in God, and if i believe in Jesus Christ, then i know that "love covers a multitude of sins"...It's a mindset and a heart issue, i think...You've got to believe it and be "sold out" like you said, or else you're just one of these skeptic/agnostics, who don't have the balls to step up and say either way...
I quite agree. Thanks for your thought. One thing that I think is interesting though is said in Romans. It says, "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20 says that. This was brought to my mind when you said, "They obviously don't know the truth and can't be held accountable..." I'm not God. I do, though, have his word and I think Romans may be telling us there that they are accountable. Like I said, the judgement call is God's, but it certainly gives me a sense of urgency for showing people God's love. I like what you said before, "If we don't reach some people that have never heard before God decides to send his Son again what will happen???" I think this responsibility that God has given us all in the Great Commision is a huge one. Once again, I'm not God and I can't take the judgement away from God. (Which brings up an interesting thought about discerning... but that's another topic) I think the love of God is a very radical and sort of urgent thing. Not in the sense that we need to shove it on people but in the sense that we need to live it out. Definitely. I really do appreciate what you said and I'd like to hear more. Thanks a lot!
No reason to remain anonymous now....I suppose i also know what you mean, by the Romans passage...It is one of those finite details that can be argued back and forth, but i realize that God made His Son and the ideas that he stood for "possible" for all people in that given time, and a purposeful disobedience would be their faults...But i also realize that even if for some obscure reason they weren't able to, or were too dense to see this in N.T. light, that Creation and a lot of O.T. passages spoke of the existence and being of God...it is a fine line and you made such a valiant rebuttal that i understand what you say and bring forth, but it doesn't necessarily explain away one or the other for me...Regardless, we are to teach and portray the essence of God...Legalists and conservative/historical Christians will argue this, but it's honestly a heart issue, opposed to the facts and knowledge...
So I think one of us, if not both, is/are confused. I think we're saying mostly the same thing. Did you think I was emphasising law? What I meant to do with the Romans passage was not flat out disagree with you. Although I was bringing up a thought which I know can be argued back and forth, I meant it less for that argument and more to emphasis the point that God's love is an urgent message and we need to be living His love - and therefore His grace - radically. I'd like to know, if you don't mind, where you see the difference in our views.
Wow, you guys are deep and I really enjoy hearing what you have to say. If I might add a bit myself in saying I totally agree with your Romans statement Laura, and in your statement Christopher that it's hard to believe in God and not believe in the bible. However, I know many people who believe in God, yet don't believe in creation. And many people who believe in God, yet don't believe He's loving and that His love is unconditional. (I'm not either of those.) I believe that if you take one part of the bible, then you have to take all 66 books! And in taking all 66 books, you have to accept what each of the verses says, even though it may be hard at times. And in my saying you have to take every verse, I don't mean you have to take each of them literally. I don't believe that the world is going to end the way Revelation, and those who believe it's not a picture book, say it will. I don't believe that all those visions that Daniel saw weren't pictures etc. But I do believe that the Roman's verse that Laura was talking about is one of those verses that says what it says. No pictures, no mixing around. It says it and it means it. I also agree that it is EXTREMELY important that we get the message out to people so that they know for sure. We need to take the gospel to people who are in the most remote places, and be the love that Christ was, as well as the love He intends for us to be. We need to take His love to the beggars that sit by the grocery stores in little cities in Ukraine, we need to take the message to people who are in the streets of San Diego. WE need to take it upon OURSELVES to spread the word of God to our neighbors and friends. We need to show people His love by telling them what HE is and what He did for us. I met this older man once at a school I went to who was a missionary in Italy for several years and even got kicked out of the country to sharing his beliefs. As I was sitting with him and he was talking to a group of us, he said to us... "I don't like budgets in churches. My wife has had EIGHT knee surgeries and not a one of them was budgeted. The church only gives so much to missions and spreading the gospel, yet it is the GREATEST emergency that we as a church have to answer." Just a thought, but we need to show Christ in every moment of our lives. And yes, like Laura said, we aren't perfect... we all fall short. But there are people out there who really, really need us. Think about that next time you guys step into a grocery store, or even walk down your hall. How many of your friends REALLY know who God is, and are striving to help other people find him as well?
Alright, so sorry that I haven't commented...I wanted to make sure that I thoroughly thought out this all. Great commenting, by the way.
Okay - God's love...(Just like a song by Huey Lewis and News - "that's the power of love") : ) sorry.
Well, it's a pretty powerful thing, and we as humans are a product of his love. Now, we, as Christians, are supposed to show this wonderful love to the rest of the world. So, the question was, "how do I do this?" I believe that there are many, simple ways to doing this. It can be anything from greeting someone as you're walking down the street, holding the door for someone, wishing someone a good day, smiling at people, and if someone's having a rough time, let them know you will pray for them. Yes, there are other, more extravagant ways of sharing God's love, such as being missionaries in another country, but all of us are not called to do that work. I feel that some of the best ways are through the simple things. Yes, I agree that we are somewhat in a position to fail, but God is always there to help us up.
I currently am struggling with sharing and showing God's love to someone who doesn't believe in Him. I don't think she understands when I'm nice and friendly and in a good mood, it is because of God. It makes me sad that she simply feels being nice makes her feel good.
I also am struggling with putting things in God's hands. I am the sort of person that wants to always help others, and figure things out. But, more and more I am realizing that I can't always do that. I can continue to pray and do all that I can to help the person or situation, but when I can do no more, I have to stop feeling anxious and trust in God, because then, it is between Him and that person.
Just some thoughts I'd been pondering...sorry for the wait with my response.
*Laura- I got your message, sure thing. Let me know if I can be of any more help. Thanks for calling me too. Sorry I didn't answer my phone - I was asleep! Oops! : ) Love you, all of you!
Thanks for commenting.
Paige, I agree that not everyone is called for missions. Which I was trying not to push too hard, but I know that it might have come across that way. I'm very much for them... but missions isn't just something to do in another country, it's also something to share with the person who lives next door to you or even your own family at times. I believe no matter where we are, we need to be showing the love and compassion of Christ. To show Him to others.
I completely agree. To love Christ, is to love everyone. We must share that love with our closest of friends, our families, classmates, roommates, and strangers, and even enemies (if we have any). While this can be very difficult, I believe that it is something that we must constantly strive for.
: )
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